Conversation on Chatroulette

Happy Saturnalia!
FBI Agent: Saturnalia
Partner: It's the original Ancient Roman holiday.  Before Christmas was intorduced
FBI Agent: Oh okay.
FBI Agent: Why celebrate it?
Partner: Because I'm not a Christian, but I feel a bit mean not celebrating the hoidays with those around me.
FBI Agent: Why aren't you a Christian?
Partner: Because it's a made up religion.  Christmas day was originally the birthday of Mithras
Partner: A roman god
FBI Agent: A contrived religion eh. What wasn't "made up"? Everything is "made up." How can you trus one thing and not the other?
Partner: I don't believe in Mithras, But remeber where Christianity started.  In Ancient Rome.  They just changed tzhe names
FBI Agent: Christianity is unique with superficial similarities aside.
Partner: Mithras was called the light of the woröd, and could forgive your sins.
FBI Agent: False.
Partner: Unfortunately not
FBI Agent: I checked the sources for that claim, they don't hold water.
Partner: And you thing the bible does?
FBI Agent: Outside sources do.
FBI Agent: A historical Jesus, check. The Israelites’ Exodus, check.
FBI Agent: Go check Mtn. Sinai.
Partner: Compiled 300 AD, by the Holy Roman Emporer
FBI Agent: There's a huge black spot on that summit.
FBI Agent: The Bible we possess is 95% accurate when compared to other manuscripts.
FBI Agent: Translations aside, of course.
Partner: Mithras was the most popular God in rome at the time
Partner: The Old testament was not coified until around 100AD
FBI Agent: Religions were born and died.
FBI Agent: The Judeo-Christian religion is the oldest religion, to my knowledge.
FBI Agent: How can that be?
FBI Agent: It's still the most popular in our world.
Partner: The Judaism was preceeded by Hamurabi
Partner: These religions were all man made developments
Partner: Buddha was around about 500 bc
Partner: Hinuism is the oldest current religion
Partner: Hinduism
FBI Agent: Wow
FBI Agent: I can't type
Partner: In the books written by Moses. How did he write about his own death?
FBI Agent: Ok, I can answer that.
Partner: And Deuteronomy is completely artificial
FBI Agent: He prophesied.
Partner: No.  He described!
FBI Agent: That doesn't negate that option.
Partner: Remeber, these religions were all of Oral tradition.  The Jewish scribes compiled the books of the old testament
Partner: Anyway, It is not for me to tell you what to believe.  If you are a better Human being because of your faith then I am happy for you
FBI Agent: Dueteronomy details rituals and rules for the better good of the people in their contemporary circumstances. It was the best, as I see it, layout for action for the people to avoid entrance of other religions in their day to their own.
Partner: And so many under penalty of death
FBI Agent: The Jewish scribes were very diligent, too.
Partner: not very nice
FBI Agent: They were careful to write down precisely everything.
Partner: As in Islam
FBI Agent: Islam has a self contradictory God.
FBI Agent: He therefore cannot be a real God.
FBI Agent: The prophet who gave rise to Islam spread his religion through conquest.
Partner: Hell does not exist in the Old Testament.  That was introduced by the Romans, based on their idea of Hades
FBI Agent: No.
FBI Agent: I can identify several passages from the Old Testament that speak of Hell.
Partner: Really?
FBI Agent: Yep.
FBI Agent: Want two?
Partner: an exmaple?
FBI Agent: Like a verse.
Partner: yes
Partner: I have my kindle here.  I can be educated if you wish
Partner: I have a copy of the KJV
FBI Agent: Haha
Partner: and I will be more than happy to check
FBI Agent: KJV I'm afraid isn't one I use.
FBI Agent: I can.
FBI Agent: But there are too many inconsistencies in it translation wise.
Partner: Please, enlighten me
FBI Agent: Sure.
Partner: Hell in the Old Testament?
FBI Agent: It was translated apparently in a time when language wasn't as developed as ours is now.
FBI Agent: Oh ok.
FBI Agent: I mistakenly thought you were referring to the KJV.
FBI Agent: I got it.
Partner: I think they used the finest linguist to interpret the Latin scripts for KJV
FBI Agent: 2 Samuel 22:6
Partner: They weren't too fluent in Aromaic
Partner: The sorrows of hell isn't the same as perpetual condemnation
FBI Agent: Well, ok. It is good for that and other reasons. But the downsides really require that check the Hebrew/Greek/Aromaic on your own on many passages to get a more clearer, better understanding.
Partner: and the greeks had already introduced the idea of hades long before this was written
FBI Agent: It's not one I use is all.
FBI Agent: Well.
FBI Agent: It does speak of Hell.
FBI Agent: That's what you asked for.
FBI Agent: I'm not sure what other Hell was envisioned in those days.
Partner: But not of eternal condemnation
FBI Agent: I cannot locate the other passage :(
FBI Agent: But I know there is at least one more.
Partner: I hope you get comfort from the commandments.  Question: You were looking for Tits and Ass.  Doesn't Jseus say somthing about that?
FBI Agent: Well, that's not very nice of you to say.
FBI Agent: Or ask rather.
Partner: It's not really a nice subject.  But it's not my religion
Partner: I am happy if people like tits and ass.  It's natural
FBI Agent: It is.
Partner: and human
FBI Agent: But that's what happened when Adam and Eve ate the fruit.
FBI Agent: They suddenly perceived a new reality.
Partner: Sorry, but they didn't exists either. 
FBI Agent: It sounds convincing to me.
FBI Agent: There is evidence.
FBI Agent: Have you read AiG's Research journal?
Partner: where?
FBI Agent: I can show you one.
FBI Agent: But you'll need some scientific background in biology and other ones.
Partner: i have that
FBI Agent: Ok.
FBI Agent: I can find you it on my own or I can give you the link for the Journal if you wish.
FBI Agent: Or both :)
FBI Agent: You've heard of AiG correct?
Partner: I'm not sure where you are going with this?
FBI Agent: Well. If you peruse of any of the material therein I am sure that you may find some plausibility in Christianity, more than you do now with your "made up" mentality.
FBI Agent: That's where I'm going.
Partner: Especially since everyone was apparently killed in the flood
FBI Agent: Well, yes.
Partner: How did all the marsupials head back to Australia?
FBI Agent: Unfortunately I cannot answer that question.
FBI Agent: I don't even know what marsupials are :D
Partner: Kangaroos, wallabies, etc.
Partner: Australia is the only plce they exist.  How did they all get there after the flood
FBI Agent: Oh.
Partner: And nowhere else?
FBI Agent: I see your point.
FBI Agent: A superficial dillema.
FBI Agent: That's all.
Partner: From the arabian peninsula all the across the globe
FBI Agent: Well, are you implying there is no possible way?
FBI Agent: None, period.
FBI Agent: ?
Partner: not implying.  Asking the question. 
Partner: Kangaroos have never been found anywhere else.  If they travelled back to AUstralia, some would surely be found on the way?
FBI Agent: What do you mean, like fossilized evidence?
Partner: Or did none die when trvelling there
Partner: fossils, live specimen, old bones, anything
FBI Agent: Right, I don't know.
Partner: Just making a point about Biblical accuracy
FBI Agent: Well, I don't think that lack of evidence means evidence of what you say.
FBI Agent: I now you were asking.
Partner: OK
FBI Agent: But lack of evidence of evidence is not evidence that it isn't accurate in that area.
FBI Agent: Oops.
FBI Agent: lack of evidence is not...*
Partner: It's not just lack of evidence, it's illogical to say the least
FBI Agent: Um, about that.
Partner: And I know God moves in mysteious ways, but is that really an anwser?
FBI Agent: If we are the prodect of random chance, which explanation I am assuming you subscribe to, why is there logical and why can we rationalize?
FBI Agent: There are clearly laws of Logic.
FBI Agent: You agree?
FBI Agent: Two questions there.
FBI Agent: Product*
Partner: The "laws" of logical are of human invention.  Socrates started this train of thought.  Remember Socrates taught Plato, Plato taught Aristotle and Aristotle taught Alexander the Great
Partner: the development of Logic has a clear lineage
FBI Agent: But there are laws of Logic. I can't say something totally illogical and be right, can I?
FBI Agent: We used them but didn't know it.
FBI Agent: So then we knew.
FBI Agent: That's how I see it.
Partner: That's where the Bible starts flling down.  When we correctly apply Reason and Logic
FBI Agent: But a lack of cause of for this really raises some questions.
Partner: Our understanding of the world did not come from anything "in" the bible.  It came when we started using reason and logic
FBI Agent: How can randomness account for it?
FBI Agent: No, our understanding of the world constantly changes.
Partner: Randomness is not an explanation on it's own.
FBI Agent: New discoveries.
FBI Agent: What do you mean?
Partner: Evolution is not random chance
FBI Agent: Natural selection selects. That's all.
FBI Agent: Evolution's other mechanism is mutation.
FBI Agent: That is random.
Partner: No. 
FBI Agent: That can't account for laws of Logic.
Partner: Logic can be seen as the evolution of thought
FBI Agent: Hmm.
Partner: Any thoughts that do not fit the environment they exist in become obsolite
Partner: obsolete
Partner: sorry
FBI Agent: No need to apologize for that.
FBI Agent: But I see what you're saying.
FBI Agent: Still can't quite get my fingers on it but I do see some kind of problem with this.
FBI Agent: Ok, how about information.
FBI Agent: The DNA.
FBI Agent: Can you suggest an explanation for the origins of the information.
FBI Agent: Information makes us.
FBI Agent: Who we are.
Partner: Read On the Origin of SPecies, then The sefish Gene
FBI Agent: The language.
FBI Agent: Well.
FBI Agent: i wouldn't want too.
FBI Agent: I've read some of Darwin's letters.
FBI Agent: He denied his theory in one.
Partner: Then you must condemn yourself to live in ingorance
FBI Agent: It's a hard book to assimilate.
Partner: The letters are not the books
FBI Agent: I know.
FBI Agent: But the letter Darwin sent said he did not really believe as any of his theories as true.
FBI Agent: How can I read something when the author himself admits the nature of them?
Partner: Darwin wrote over 150 years ago.  We have accumulated much knowledge since then
FBI Agent: They are just theories he was busy formulating after reading Lyells book.
FBI Agent: Nothing more.
FBI Agent: I don't think I can take it seriously.
Partner: How can you say this if you haven't read the book`?
FBI Agent: If the originator himself wasn't taking it seriously.
FBI Agent: I say it based upon what Darwin said.
Partner: Not fully understanding something does not make the whole wrong
FBI Agent: Who else knew it better?
FBI Agent: It did contribute to our scientific knowledge, no doubt about that.
Partner: Does your belief in the Bible, prevent you from reading
FBI Agent: But what was contributed has since been further developed and changed.
FBI Agent: No, of course not.
FBI Agent: Darwin's oppositin and lack of faith in Christianity, and the aforementioned letter do.
FBI Agent: And the fact that it is hard to read.
FBI Agent: The language isn't modern.
Partner: Our knowledge since is based on the essentially simple concept he proposed
FBI Agent: Archaic
FBI Agent: Not everywhere.
Partner: What he didn't know we have subsequently improved upon
FBI Agent: What I mean by that is that any of Darwin's proposed principals having the status of 'fact' is not something that is unanimously agreed upon among scientists, both atheistic and theistic.
FBI Agent: There are some secular scientits who go as far as saying it's a complete hoax.
FBI Agent: They laugh at it.
FBI Agent: It's a joke.
FBI Agent: To them.
Partner: He may not have understood the exact mechanisms, but that isn't the same as the theory of evolution being wrong
FBI Agent: And they are hardcore scientists.
Partner: Name one?
FBI Agent: John A. Davison.
Partner: John Dawson,  what is his field of expertise?
FBI Agent: Not Dawson.
FBI Agent: Check his vitaeu.
Partner: Davison
FBI Agent: On his .edu page.
FBI Agent: I think it's biology.
Partner: What is his subject
FBI Agent: And the study of structure.
Partner: If he's a Biologist, then he's a very strange one
FBI Agent: Of living species.
FBI Agent: No lol.
Partner: I just typed John A Davison into wicki.  not an entry found
FBI Agent: So what?
FBI Agent: I can make one right now.
FBI Agent: It's easy.
FBI Agent: :)
FBI Agent: Have you read, Slaughter of the Dissidents?
Partner: He's an ANtidarwinist
Partner: I Googled him
FBI Agent: That's right.
FBI Agent: He is.
FBI Agent: The same way I am anti atheistic.
FBI Agent: But I am open to challenges and open to having my conviction changed.
Partner: Would not that colour his starting point though
Partner: We were talking evolution, not theisism
FBI Agent: Have you read the above book?
FBI Agent: I'm just using an analogy.
Partner: Because someone is a dissident, does not give automatic validity
FBI Agent: Well, if you read it you'll be quite enlightened.
FBI Agent: Many scientists are denied tenure and being relocated to different positions.
FBI Agent: Simply because they don't toe the line with what other unlikeminded scientists are saying.
Partner: Opinion is always allowed.  But if you start with the answer you want, it's relatively easy to find facts to fit
FBI Agent: Yep.
FBI Agent: Affirming the consequent.
FBI Agent: :)
FBI Agent: Logic.
Partner: As with you and Darwin,  I shall not bother to waste my time with his book.  Having read much on Religion, Biological evolution etc.  I cannot choose to go backwards
FBI Agent: I understand.
Partner: I must go now.  I hope you find comfort in your view of the world and live a good and happy life
FBI Agent: I have noted some things you said about the thoughts and environment.
FBI Agent: Thanks.
FBI Agent: You too.
FBI Agent: Wait.
FBI Agent: Do not leave yet.
Partner: I just urge you to think about some subjects that you may find uncomfortable, if it helps strngthen your world view
FBI Agent: Never mind. The history shows everything we have said.
FBI Agent: I am actually quite open to atheism.
FBI Agent: I am willing to become an atheist and devote my life to defending atheism if it is true.
Partner: Atheism is just the idea that there are no gods
FBI Agent: Through science and whatnot.
FBI Agent: This can go into a whole nother discussion lol.
FBI Agent: I disagree.
FBI Agent: But I agree with the definition.
FBI Agent: It's not "just" the idea that there are no gods.
FBI Agent: Atheism is, to my knowledge a whole new philosophy and an interpretation of evidence.
Partner: When we free ourselves from superstition, we free ourselves to be the best Human we can be
FBI Agent: Wait.
FBI Agent: Have you read any attestants’ testimonies of heaven?
Partner: no
FBI Agent: I know one personally.
FBI Agent: Well.
Partner: what is it?
FBI Agent: Somewhat.
FBI Agent: Well.
FBI Agent: There's heaven.
FBI Agent: God sees us.
FBI Agent: Through the roofs.
Partner: Believing in life after death, robs us of living fully in the only life we can know
FBI Agent: The heaven has inexplicable creations.
Partner: Life after death is an oxymoron
FBI Agent: Lol.
FBI Agent: Well, that's why I say "passed away."
FBI Agent: I don't say "R.I.P."
FBI Agent: Anyway
FBI Agent: Just a quick remark
FBI Agent: Atheism can be a religion.
FBI Agent: There are book,s radio shows, etc.
FBI Agent: They all promote atheistic thought and tell you to deny religion.
FBI Agent: That's religion.
Partner: Athesim is NOT a religion.  There are no rules, not tenets, not compulsions. 
FBI Agent: Can be.
FBI Agent: People join conferences where they oppose religion and think of ploys that will work towards destroying religion.
FBI Agent: That's religion.
FBI Agent: Not atheism by definition.
FBI Agent: But it can be.
Partner: Buddhism is a religion, but it is also essentially Atheist
FBI Agent: I don't know anything about Buddhism.
FBI Agent: I know Taioism and the yin yang.
FBI Agent: I also like Zen.
FBI Agent: I practice it.
FBI Agent: It helps to concentrate.
Partner: Religion when it causes harm to others, should be opposed
FBI Agent: See.
FBI Agent: --.--
FBI Agent: Ugh.
FBI Agent: Too much Dawkins lol?
Partner: Taoism in it's original form was most definitely Atheistic
FBI Agent: Agnostic.
FBI Agent: I think.
FBI Agent: By they way, what does Dawkin's refusal to debate William Lane Crag tell you?
FBI Agent: He was also slandering him on his website.
FBI Agent: That is not someone I want to believe.
Partner: No.  the Tao is All things.  There is no need for a god
FBI Agent: If this beliefs result in such childish behavior. No thanks.
FBI Agent: I'll give it a pass.
Partner: WLC is a Christian Apologist.  He has nothing valid to say
FBI Agent: Lol.
FBI Agent: Pretty much summarizes what Dawkins said.
Partner: His basic argument is "I believe, therefore...."
FBI Agent: But thanks for the information about Taoism.
FBI Agent: I know some of Taoism*
FBI Agent: Lol.
FBI Agent: His basic argument is definitely not that.
FBI Agent: I'm not going to defend WLC's arguments.
Partner: Try to read to understand, you are part of the Tao, therefore you are part of the universe around you.  No need to thank
FBI Agent: But obviously, if they are as weak as you say, then why is Dawkins being a coward?
FBI Agent: Well, I don't believe in Taoism.
FBI Agent: I do like the methods such as Zen.
Partner: It's a waste of time.  WLC makes a living at what he does, but none of his arguents are new or revealling in any useful way.
FBI Agent: So does Dawkins lol!
FBI Agent: His books are so popular!
Partner: Buddhism and Taoism give much to personal enlightenment
Partner: They are both ways of understanding who we, as indiviuals are.  This does not involve the neccesity for a God
FBI Agent: Dawkins is still an epitome of a religious atheistic zealot.
Partner: Try reading Chrisopher Hitchens, God is not great.  He knows his subject far better than Dawkins
FBI Agent: I will.
FBI Agent: I've had mixed opinions about that book though.
FBI Agent: From both atheists and theists.
FBI Agent: Atheists saying it embarrasses them.
FBI Agent: And some extolling it.
FBI Agent: I don't think any theist has given that book even a three star rating based on its merits.
FBI Agent: On AmAZON.
Partner: The reason people are more outspoken about Religion and by extension, their reject of religious texts, is that the Religious esp. Christians  and Muslims,  seem to think that their religious texts give them the right to blow up the world.  This is dangerous
FBI Agent: Most were laughing at it.
FBI Agent: I mean, the title of the book itself, "How religion poisons everything," shows that it's going to generalize religion.
Partner: Both preach the end of the world, with their own Messiahs coming to save them and condemn everybody else.  This is not healthy
FBI Agent: What?
FBI Agent: No Christian wants to blow up the world. Was this metaphorical?
FBI Agent: Right.
Partner: The Madness that is the Book of Revelations?
FBI Agent: But two saying it doesn't mean borth are wrong.
FBI Agent: I think you can identify the logical fallasy in that.
FBI Agent: Madness?
FBI Agent: Well, I understand.
Partner: Have you really read it?
FBI Agent: The writer was high.
FBI Agent: I heard.
FBI Agent: Lol.
FBI Agent: I'm not going to comment on that.
FBI Agent: I know it's a very strange book.
FBI Agent: I know.
Partner: And because he smoked one too many spliffs, the end of the world has been nigh for 2000 years
FBI Agent: I have not read it myself.
FBI Agent: But seriously
FBI Agent: If this is an allusion to that whatshisname
FBI Agent: Guy preaching the End of the world, or did, on may 21.
FBI Agent: Then I think it's Sep 21
FBI Agent: Ugh
Partner: You should read it.  It is MAD
FBI Agent: I will try lol.
FBI Agent: Then please ignore.
FBI Agent: He clearly he hasn't read his Bible.
FBI Agent: It says no man, even the Son, knows the date.
Partner: And remember, Both Muslims and Christians think Jesus is coming back to reward the faithful and condenm the rest
FBI Agent: Their theology is so feeble.
FBI Agent: And?
Partner: The world has to deal with the consequences
FBI Agent: How about the consequences of Eugenics?
FBI Agent: How about Hitler's holocaust?
Partner: What has eugenics got to do with anything
FBI Agent: It was scientifically driven.
Partner: Hitler was a Catholic
FBI Agent: Haber And Bosch
FBI Agent: The guys who found ou tthe synthesis of ammonia.
FBI Agent: Their discovery ended up killing many people.
FBI Agent: These discoveries had no religious influence.
Partner: what has this to do with anything?
FBI Agent: Yet their result was disasterous.
FBI Agent: With religion's consequences being bad.
Partner: And some might argue that if it wasn't for Nazi germany, modern day Isreal would not exist
FBI Agent: It pales in comparison to what nonreligion's consequences are.
FBI Agent: Your point being?
Partner: Nazi Germany was overwhelmingly Catholic.  Stalin train in a seminary
Partner: What they did has nothing to do with atheism
FBI Agent: Right, but read this book: 6 Million and Counting.
Partner: As I said, Athesim does not have a unified theory of how the world should work.
FBI Agent: It has biases.
Partner: But religion is always a useful tool for getting good people to do bad things
FBI Agent: Like what?
FBI Agent: Name one bad thing Christian does.
Partner: Like the Killing of the Jews, because the catholic church taught that the Jews killed christ
FBI Agent: Omg.
FBI Agent: That's not Christian!
FBI Agent: Christian by definition condemns such distortions of thought.
FBI Agent: Well by logical necessity.
FBI Agent: Christianity*
Partner: The Catholics are the largest of the Christian denominations
FBI Agent: The Catholics are anti Sola Scriptura.
FBI Agent: Heard of Martin Luther?
Partner: Christianity as we know it would not exist, but for catholism
FBI Agent: And his Five Solas
FBI Agent: Maybe true.
FBI Agent: :)
Partner: The protestant reformation was a reaction to the catholic church
FBI Agent: But still, what Catholics did was not Christian.
FBI Agent: Do you deny this?
FBI Agent: So you still need to answer my question.
FBI Agent: If you don't deny it.
Partner: People were burnt at the stake for reading the bible in the own language.  Instead of in Latin
FBI Agent: Really?
FBI Agent: I didn't know.
Partner: And for 1200 years, catholiics were christianity
FBI Agent: Ok.
Partner: All others were heretics
FBI Agent: Maybe the start was a little bloody and awkward.
FBI Agent: But the same with scientism.
Partner: But this is GOD's WORD
FBI Agent: It has to make headway
FBI Agent: With powerful opposition.
FBI Agent: Like that o Stephen Jay Gould's and many other scientists.
FBI Agent: of*
Partner: i thought it was about truth and morality
FBI Agent: Well.
Partner: Did God get all that stuff wrong?
FBI Agent: You haven't read the Old Testament then.
Partner: The Old Testament is even worse!
Partner: And yes I have
FBI Agent: God doesn't tolerate incredulity and idolatry by his creation.
FBI Agent: Ok, I see you are quite misinformed.
Partner: Do you have a cross
FBI Agent: Read Paul Copans new book, Is God a Moral Monster.
FBI Agent: What do you mean?
FBI Agent: Do I wear that cross?
FBI Agent: No way.
FBI Agent: People create a fetish out of that thing.
Partner: I cannot.  If I do not belive in God, questions of God's morallity are pointless
FBI Agent: See.
FBI Agent: That's why I disagreed with your "just this..." definition on atheism.
FBI Agent: It's not just.....
FBI Agent: blah blah blah
FBI Agent: It's more often than not a religion.
Partner: If there is no God, what is the point reading books about God's attributes?
FBI Agent: --.--
FBI Agent: I can challenge that with this: That's your theology.
FBI Agent: I mean, the theology you had that led you disbelieve in God.
FBI Agent: :D
Partner: I have no desired to read books about Paddington Bears difficult upbringing in Peru.  The bear is fictitious
FBI Agent: Who said it wasn't?
FBI Agent: Or even it's probability of existing?
FBI Agent: Have you bothered to consider that?
FBI Agent: The probability of God existing is...BIG!
FBI Agent: Testimonies as ones I said exist of heaven don't constitute proof or evidence
Partner: The eidence for God's existence is the Bible.  I do not believe the Bible to be true
FBI Agent: You forgot what I said.
FBI Agent: But I'm sure I forgot what you said.
FBI Agent: But what you forgot was this: Outside sources.
Partner: We are now going around in circles.  Sorry
FBI Agent: I said since the beginning.
FBI Agent: No.
FBI Agent: I don't think so
Partner: Outside sources are used to justify what the bible says.  That isn't proof of anything
FBI Agent: ?
FBI Agent: I don't understand.
FBI Agent: Justify?
Partner: I have a picture of Buddha in my house
FBI Agent: Ok
Partner: I am not a Buddhist but there is much he said that has value
FBI Agent: I agree.
FBI Agent: Though I know little about it.
Partner: I have a carving of the Goddess Saraswati
Partner: From Bali
FBI Agent: Is it an antique or what, where are you going with this?
Partner: She is the Hindu goddess of Music, the Arts, and Knowledge
FBI Agent: Dizzy.
FBI Agent: Lol.
Partner: I do not believe IN either of these, but as ideas they to me have some value
FBI Agent: Ok, same here with regard to Zen practice of obtaining concentration.
FBI Agent: It has practical value.
Partner: And there is no sense of condemnation if I choose to ignore the supernatural
FBI Agent: Ok.
FBI Agent: And?
Partner: Remember Zen is a form of Buddhism
Partner: We can take positives from mcuh that has gone before. 
FBI Agent: Positives?
Partner: Because these things were once believed, and still are by many people, does not make them any more TRUE
Partner: But as an aide to understanding ourselves, they do have merit
FBI Agent: But the book on Buddha was written hudreds of years after his presence, am I right?
FBI Agent: This is not the case with the Bible.
Partner: No.  Buddism is a coniutal process of enlightenment.
FBI Agent: The Quran cobbled up stories from the Old Testament.
FBI Agent: I mean ABOUT buddha
FBI Agent: The guy who has these ideas and originated them, right?
Partner: Budha says, not even to believe what he says if it makes no sense to your reason
FBI Agent: Who had*
FBI Agent: Really?
Partner: Yes
Partner: He claimed enlightenment
Partner: But he did not say all must follow his path
FBI Agent: The direct opposite of what the Quaran prescribes. Lol!
Partner: The Quran is closer to the Old Testament, than many give it credit for
Partner: Both say there is only one God
FBI Agent: Why do you say so?
FBI Agent: The sentence preceding the last one.
Partner: Jesus is treated as a Prophet in Islam, but not a God
Partner: The Jews do not even recognize him as a Prophet
FBI Agent: Yet that's exactly what others considered of Him, and he asked his disciples of what they thought of him. They answered Son of God. And I think Jesus' reply according to the NT was a confirming one.
Partner: Which was?
FBI Agent: I mean, the Gospels and other letters in the NT very flagrantly reveal a Jesus who is not a prophet.
FBI Agent: Hence it is why the Muslims claim it was revised.
FBI Agent: And yadayada.
FBI Agent: Historical evidence suggest otherwise.
FBI Agent: There many scholars in the field I'm sure you are aware of them.
FBI Agent: There are*
Partner: If evidence is based on the Pauline letters,  then that is not evidence
FBI Agent: Not just those.
FBI Agent: Wait
Partner: I must go.  I have the rest of my life to get on with.  But thanks to the discourse.  It's been interesting
FBI Agent: Brb
FBI Agent: Or you departing?
Partner: As I said at the beginning, Jesus was a creation of the Roman empire.
FBI Agent: Lol
FBI Agent: I think this is like over 20 pages long
Partner: Have a good life and strive to be happy
FBI Agent: Yep you two
FBI Agent: adieus
FBI Agent: please read some of aig as i will read chris. hitches book
FBI Agent: :)
Partner: Thats froma poem called Desiderata